Third Crossing - Point St. Mark Dr. and Gore Road intersection

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The Third Crossing project team is releasing the final design of Point St. Mark Dr. and Gore Road intersection (south leg) for residents to view and ask questions of the project team. Based on an informal survey of public opinion and input from the City’s Transportation Department and Emergency Service Providers the final design restricts vehicle access and provides a right-out only onto Gore Road and includes new active transportation infrastructure for cycling, pedestrian, transit and multi-modal travelers.

The purpose of this Get Involved Page is to allow residents to review the final intersection design, understand the considerations for designing appropriate infrastructure for cycling, pedestrian and multi-use travelers at the intersection and ask questions of the project team.

Residents can view the final design in the ‘Display boards about intersection changes’ section below and download the pdf slides. If you have questions, please feel free to ask the project team in the 'Question' section.

*This engagement is now closed and construction of the intersection is in process. Read the summary of the public engagement on the Third Crossing website or in the related documents section on the right-hand side.


The Third Crossing project team is releasing the final design of Point St. Mark Dr. and Gore Road intersection (south leg) for residents to view and ask questions of the project team. Based on an informal survey of public opinion and input from the City’s Transportation Department and Emergency Service Providers the final design restricts vehicle access and provides a right-out only onto Gore Road and includes new active transportation infrastructure for cycling, pedestrian, transit and multi-modal travelers.

The purpose of this Get Involved Page is to allow residents to review the final intersection design, understand the considerations for designing appropriate infrastructure for cycling, pedestrian and multi-use travelers at the intersection and ask questions of the project team.

Residents can view the final design in the ‘Display boards about intersection changes’ section below and download the pdf slides. If you have questions, please feel free to ask the project team in the 'Question' section.

*This engagement is now closed and construction of the intersection is in process. Read the summary of the public engagement on the Third Crossing website or in the related documents section on the right-hand side.

CLOSED: This discussion has concluded.

 If you have questions, please feel free to ask the project team.

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    When at the intersection of Gore Rd and Highway 15 heading westbound the straight through is in the right turn lane, but when you cross the intersection you will have to merge to the left to go straight over the bridge. Wouldn't in make more sense to have it in the left turn lane, as to not have to merge?

    Tina T asked 7 months ago

    Hi Tina, 

    Thank you for your question. 

    The alignment of the east leg heading west is orientated correctly.  Please see the two parallel blue lines that are in the picture below.  As you will see, the through lane is directed into the correct lane on the west side of the intersection.  The illusion is the placement of the curb which is much more south on the east side of the intersection. 

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    In preparation for the intersection design, drastic changes were make to the Library setting which was a pleasant place. What plans are there to create an ambience for this historic building?

    Shirley Anne Harmer asked 7 months ago

    Hi Shirley, 

    Thank you for your question.

    The building has not been impacted by the Third Crossing project. In terms of some impacts, some trees needed to be removed, which will be replaced as part of the project's Tree Management Plan. As well there was some encroachment of the front lawn. As well, part of the heritage stone wall will be dismantled and then rebuilt on a right-angle to the current wall. There will also be some vegetation replanting strategies that are going to be developed but other than that, there are currently no other plans required to be carried out. 

    You can find more information on our project website at https://thirdcrossing.cityofkingston.ca/

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    With extra vehicles entering PSM via Grenadier, due to the necessity of a "right out only" at Gore and PSM Drive, will there be adjustments made on the traffic flow at the PSM Drive/Highway 15/Grenadier Drive intersection after this is all done, it it becomes aware that a tweek might be necessary there? Thanks.

    me asked 7 months ago

    Hi there, 

    Thank you for your question. Once the bridge is open, it will alter the traffic patterns in the PSM area. We will be setting up the signal timings for opening day and will monitor the traffic flows once the road is in service for the public. Any adjustments to signal timings or turning restrictions will be considered at that time to meet our level of service targets.

    Thank you

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    Is there any provision on the bridge to accommodate a third lane should traffic become heavier than expected at different times of the day, and of course, possible intersection overwhelming also. Also, for emergency vehicles if accident on the bridge. Thank you.

    me asked 7 months ago

    Hi there, 

    Thank you for the question. A lot of your questions can be answered through the project's Business Plan that from 2017. You can find that Business Plan and further information on our project website at https://thirdcrossing.cityofkingston.ca/ under 'Info Centre'. 

    But to provide some notes here the Business Plan the objective was "undertaken as part of the Kingston Transportation Master Plan update was to revalidate the need and justification of the Third Crossing based upon updated information since the development of the previous master plan update in 2009. Phase 1 work also provided direction on the final bridge design parameters. Although provisions were made for up to a 4-lane cross-section in the Third Crossing EA, the decision of travel lane capacity was deferred until updated growth, population, and traffic studies were completed. Some debate has continued with respect to whether the proposed Third Crossing should be built as a 2, 3 or 4-lane bridge structure. A 3-lane bridge has merit when there is a predominant travel direction in the morning and afternoon peak travel periods. This allows for the ‘third’ travel lane to be used to accommodate for the additional traffic volume in one direction during the morning commute and then reversed in order to accommodate for the additional traffic volume in the opposite direction during the afternoon commute. This option has been discounted based on existing and forecasted traffic volumes that reveal a relatively equal split in traffic volumes in each direction during the peak travel periods. The 2-lane option for the proposed bridge crossing was recommended to City Council as part of the Third Crossing Action Plan approved in September 2015. This recommendation was based upon a number of factors including (i) population growth, (ii) expected improvements and shifts to other modes of transportation, including walking and cycling and transit, (iii) changes in transportation technologies and use of autonomous vehicles, (iv) promotion of transportation demand management strategies, (v) changes in population demographics, and (vi) magnitude of infrastructure project capital costs, were all factors that influenced the recommendation and decision to advance the preliminary design for a 2-lane bridge deck configuration for the Third Crossing.”

     

    In the event traffic patterns require additional lanes on the bridge, the tall wall can be removed since all portions of the bridge, including the multi-use pathway, has been designed to handle fire trucks, ambulances, and cars.  The multi-use pathway is wide enough (4 meters) to allow passage of ambulance even with the tall wall in place. From the Preliminary Design, report pages  189-190:

    https://www.cityofkingston.ca/documents/10180/19392805/ThirdCrossing_Preliminary_Design_Final_TextOnly.pdf/69fb2896-3a17-4ac4-98f0-5ccf73d2d257 

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    Maybe someone already asked, but, why is the Point St Mark (PSM) exit right turn only? Why can't you go left onto the bridge or straight to the library? It forces the whole subdivision to still use the PSM at Grenadier to get to the bridge (some back tracking significantly).

    Kingston1986 asked 7 months ago

    Hi there, 

    Thanks for your question.

    During several public engagement events since 2016, residents approached project team staff and indicated that shortcutting was an ongoing issue. Residents indicated that they frequently saw cars that were heading south on Hwy 15, turn west onto Gore Road and cut through the Point St Mark area to get to Grenadier in order to bypass traffic on Hwy 15 between Gore and Grenadier. The reverse direction was also mentioned.

    There was discussion of having a full closure of Point St Mark (PSM) at Gore. However, for emergency service reasons, the Point St Mark neighbourhood requires two entrances in case one becomes blocked due to an emergency event. That resulted in having at least one movement being permitted at PSM/Gore. The next question was to determine which movement will provide the lowest chance of shortcutting.  The answer was the right-out only.

    Having a series of speed humps and curb bump-outs throughout the neighbourhood would provide a lower success rate as a deterrent to shortcutting compared to 'no ingress right turns' from Gore. In other words, there is no short-cutting possible from folks crossing the bridge to enter PSM since it is prohibited as per the final design. We understand that some potential trips would be legitimate right turns for people who live in PSM but that would be outweighed by the number of drivers who would shortcut just to bypass Hwy 15/Gore intersection.

    The City will be monitoring and performing traffic counts once the intersection is open to the public. If any modifications are needed in the future based on traffic patterns, it could be considered at that time.

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    Good Morning! Just wondering as to why one of the big maple trees on Gore, across from the Library was taken down? was it due to illness? will it be replaced? will we lose any other big maples? We thought all of these were to stay. As well, has any thought been put in, to adding a boat launch to access the water from the East end? we don't currently have a launch, since the Marina closed down. We look forward to your response. Thank you!

    Ghis asked 7 months ago

    Hi there, 

    Thanks for your question. The mature stand of trees on the south side of Gore Road is intended to stay. One of the Norway Maples near the fire hydrant was split in a manner that would have become a branch fall hazard due to a storm last year. An assessment was performed by the City arborist who placed a red flag on the trunk to indicate that the tree was planned for removal. If it’s gone now, that is the reason. Regarding tree planting, an Arborist Report was prepared in 2019 to collect a tree inventory, assess the impact of the Third Crossing construction and make tree protection recommendations. 

    As part of the Tree Management Plan, the team has been able to reduce the impact area and number of trees to be removed. Restoring trees is a very important aspect of the Third Crossing’s Tree Management Plan, which was made in consultation with the project team. The plan meets the requirements of the City of Kingston’s Tree Bylaw.

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    The thirds crossing is coming along beautifully. I did notice as per some drawings of the finished product, comments on the planning site, and on answers provided here, that cyclists and pedestrians are to share the multi-use walkway on the crossing, but there is a simple and inexpensive remedy to prevent issues of mishaps between the two. What might be the possibility of having a walking lane separated by a painted line to the South of a cycling lane painted on the bridge. The same structural plan but just painted to designate cycling vs walking lanes for the safety of both. I’m a cyclist and I am okay with pedestrians having the view to the South as cyclists have the advantage of height and could use the North side of the multi-use path.

    SkyeDaisy asked 8 months ago

    Thanks for your suggestion.

    There have been discussions about how to mark the pathway on the bridge. We feel the best approach at this time is to keep the pathway unmarked to promote a mixed-use. This resembles the pathway that is located south of King St East at Breakwater Park near the Kingston General Hospital. Folks that use that pathway have to get along and be courteous for shared use.

     Applying that logic to the Third Crossing, we hope the mixing will result in courteous behaviour and limit any unsafe speeds of cyclists on that pathway. Once the bridge is in service, City staff will monitor the path flow to see if it is being shared responsibly. If path markings are needed, they can always be applied afterwards relatively easily.  

    Please let us know if you have any further suggestions or questions.

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    After so many years of allowing right turns on red lights, why are you creating a new problem. There are so few intersections that do not allow right on red. This introduces a new problem into an already confusing intersection design which will no doubt cause problems, if not injury or death to either bikers or pedestrians.

    William Allore asked 8 months ago

    Hi William, 

    Thank you for your question. All right turn movements for both intersections are permissible. The one exception is the south leg of where Point St Mark meets with Gore Road. If there is a pedestrian movement on the east crosswalk, then the law states that you can’t cross the crosswalk with a car until the pedestrian clears the road. This applies for left or right turns.  

    The signal timing will be adjusted to allow the appropriate amount of time for pedestrians to safely cross the road. As with all new intersections, the City will monitor the traffic flows once the road is in service for the public.  Any adjustments to signal timings or turning restrictions will be dealt with at that time.  

    Please let us know if you have any further questions.

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    I have a few questions regarding the design of the intersection 1. Are there plans to implement a concrete barrier between the cyclists and the rest of the intersection, similar to the Dutch model of the protected intersection? 2. Are there any plans to have advanced green lights for cyclists to provide extra safety for them? 3. Has the design for the intersection been finalised, or is it still subject to change?

    Robert Macleod asked 8 months ago

    Hi Robert, 

    Thank you for your questions. Please see below for the answers. 

    1. The multi-use pathway will be separated by a solid concrete barrier between motorists and cyclists/pedestrians and multi-modal travellers for the bridge. The pathway on the southside of the bridge deck will be bi-directional which means pedestrians, cyclists and other multi-modal users will share a 4-metre pathway as part of active transportation. Cyclists may use the 2-meter wide road shoulders if they choose to do so on the bridge. 

    2. The infrastructure has been designed to allow cyclists to cross the road in a location that is familiar with car drivers which is alongside the pedestrian crosswalks.  We are working on the signal timings as we speak and will bring this question up to the team for consideration.  We are aware that pedestrians receive advanced green at some intersections already in Kingston.

    3. Both the Library and the Hwy 15 intersections were difficult designs that had many competing interests with the main items being the elements you don’t see, the underground electrical, sewers, and grade tie-ins.  The layout of the road is final but any of the softer elements such as street furniture and plantings have not been finalized.  Any other minor tweaks based on this engagement process can also be considered if the impact to the final design is minimal.

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    I see nothing but more traffic problems, in these designs, if there isn't reasonable traffic signalling during rush hour periods. This has been a major problem at the Highway 15 and Highway 2 intersection, with traffic being backed up all the way to the LaSalle Causeway. There has been an abject failure of the City to deal with this problem for years. There's a strong possibility of traffic being delayed turning off of the bridge onto Highway 15, and thus backing up onto the bridge itself, simply to accommodate pedestrian and cycle traffic. Is it really necessary to add a crosswalk intersection that will probably interfere with bridge traffic, (especially during time of heavy traffic use), when pedestrians and cycles would only have a short distance to go to cross at the Highway 15 intersection, if this traffic is mostly to accommodate the library? And, considering that the library may often be closed, wouldn't this intersection add unnecessary traffic stops, in the case of automatic traffic signals; or, will this new design have traffic signals that are only prompted by pedestrians and cycles using a button to request a green light for their crossing the intersection? Such a short distance between intersections, at one end of this bridge, is only going to add more gridlock to traffic entering or exiting the bridge from Highway 15, during rush hour traffic.

    Fortean asked 8 months ago

    Hi Fortean, 

    Thanks for your question. The preference provided by Kingston Council is to provide the highest level of service to non-automobile modes of travel. The transportation hierarchy is to provide pedestrians, then cyclists, then transit, and autos the ranking of the level of service. The good news is that the level of service for all modes is meeting the targets established by Council.

     To help alleviate potential congestion, the east-west movement at the library intersection will remain green unless activated by something on the north/south legs.  During earlier phases of the project, the project team received overwhelming from the residents to provide a safe crossing from the Point St Mark area north to access the library, parklands, and the dog park.  

     Once the bridge is in service, City staff will monitor the traffic flows and adjust the timings to maximize traffic movement as much as possible.  So there is an element of wait-and-see that is involved which is akin to many new intersections that come online after a new road is implemented.